Attached pictures show the printed part from two sides; first two pictures with support material; next two pictures show a 'real' foot skeleton for comparison; next two pictures show the 'real' bone and the printed part side by side; and the last two pictures show the printed part from top and bottom with support material removed.
Also I got rid of the phalanges distales and phalanges mediae as they are just too small and delicate. Not sure yet about the phalanges proximales. To fit into a DS-163 foot, the whole fifth metatarsal bone needs to go as well. The reduced foot skeleton with removed phalanges distales & mediae measures ~16 cm in length.
mi6c, next time you get a chance have a good feel of Yutsuki's feet.
I gave Yuuko's feet a good feel up the other day and found that her foot plate's are so simple in comparison to the DS foot plates. Yuuko's foot plates are simple rounded off plates that don't even cover the length of the foot, they are pretty short. Most of the plate is towards the back of the feet.
Sometimes the most simple solution works better.
And yes, I also think standing in heels is generally a bad idea, no matter what its asking for trouble/damage.
If DS could work on getting their dolls to stand flat footed only that would be ideal, for standing in high heels the owner could always use a stand with the hanging kit accessory.
BTW here's a new pic of Yuuko (Silicone-Art) with most of her weight on one leg/foot - still not any signs of damage after over 3 years.
Well my 158 DS has arrived and I tried standing very briefly.
With there wonderful joint design I found she can stand OK, this was limited to the time it took to take one photo.
As my dolls are also used for photos I will report back on any further developments of standing ,I will take the precaution of at least putting shoes on her to hopefully lessen damage.
If damage does occur then I will see how I can mod the foot.
After a series of less than pleasant distractions in completely different matters, I finally managed to proceed with my little experiment.
I decided not to cast a DS foot as this would mean silicone on silicone, and to that degree I do neither trust my release agent nor Doll Sweets toes. These toes are really cute, and I don't want them to get stuck in a mold, so I simply 3D printed a foot. The alternative would be alginate, which would result in a so called 'lost form' (I could use the mold only for a couple of hours, until the alginate shrinks). Since mi6c might use the mold for his alternative foot plate design, I can not use a lost form.
Actually, I printed three variants in different sizes.
The biggest foot is ~24,5 cm long. That's approximately shoe size 39 (DE) / 5.5 (UK) / 7.5 (US), so it's a realistic female foot.
The medium variant is ~23 cm long - approximately shoe size 37 (DE) / 4 (UK) / 6 (US). That's a rather small female foot, but still bigger than most doll's feet.
The smallest variant has a part of the lower ~15 cm long - approximately baby shoe size 25 (DE) / 7.5 (UK) / 8 (US). That's a miniature foot that would fit to a doll in the 120-130 cm body height range. With a total length of ~32 cm that's the biggest object my crappy printer could handle (*).
(*) Side note: The hardware used for 3d printing is an 'Ultimaker 3 Extended'. This €4.500 device is supposed to have a build space of 215 × 215 × 300 mm. However, you can only use a fraction of the specified build space to print an actual object unless you modify the printer and remove the clamps that hold the build plate, and hack the printer's configuration which prevents you to use the full build plate. Realistically, you can use ~160 × 160 mm of the build plate if using single extrusion. I printed support material in PVA, so I used the 2nd extruder, which aditionally reduced the usabled build space even more.
I will proceed with the 23 cm foot, so here are some more measurements:
The length is measured from back of the heel to tip of the toes. The max. width of this foot is ~8.5 cm (@mi6c: do you need more measurements?)
If you compare these dimensions to any existing female DS foot, you will notice that Doll Sweet's feet are way smaller. I believe that this is one of the problems preventing them to be able to stand on their own feet (not enough bearing surface to spread the weight), but so far this is not more than a hunch. However, using a realistically sized female foot like the 24,5 cm variant would make the doll look like a Hobbit's bride. We don't want that, either.
The next step will be to cast the foot in a two-part form. I will cast PLA (the foot) in silicone with support in gypsum ties (Gipsbinden). Since I'm not a trained moldmaker, no precise seamlines are to be expected. This is a rather 'short sleeved' (hemdsämelig) approach, I am aware of that (**).
(**) Side note: The software used for processing the 3D models is 'Cura'. Cura has a 'Mold' feature which would be amazingly helpful - if it would work reasonably. Actually, it generates an inverted object, but no support material to keep the object on the build plate; de facto, this limits you to print molds for useless stuff like a cube. Also, it can not generate a two-part-mold, so you could not get anything out of the mold without sawing the mold form open. On top of tht, Cura prints support material inside the mold object, so you can't get that out either, unless you are using PVA. The way Cura implements the 'Mold' feature is unbelievable stupid, but it could be immensely helpful.
This is a really great project. DS feet could use a bit of an updated structure. Since the tip of the feet are completely floppy, putting on shoes to protect the silicone can be a massive operation. Not to mention that the plate did not like it that the doll was stored standing up while shipped.
interesting experiment ,as said elsewhere the 158 feet are size 33 EU or size 1 UK which measures out at 21 cm
As my doll gets older I will probably have to cut open a foot to see what can be done, at the moment she is to new to scar
Will keep an eye on this thread , makes interesting reading.
Always said doll folk can be very inventive
a litte progress report… I finally managed to cast the 3D printed foot in Mold Star 15 (using what I had on the shelf). Learned to RTFM, yes, this stuff is not for brush-on applications. So had to add some Thi-Vex.
The white stuff around the form is the support shell, made of plaster bandages. The three cork parts on each part of the form are keys for alignment.
So I have a silicone form now and can start to pour some silicone into it… as soon as I have figured out how to fix the skeleton 'inlay' into the form.
That's the skeleton I'm planning to use. I think there will be one 'transverse strut' around ankle height, and one or two fixtures in the toes. No idea if this will work (or if the skeleton will poke through the silicone right away)…
And work progresses well even though I cannot really see the advantage of using a copy of a real skeleton foot.
But then I'm not doing it myself so I'm sure you will develop it further, after all this is still the first experiment.
I admire your inventiveness.
one step further… reduced to foot bones to an appropriate size and wrapped them into some gauze:
Then I casted the foot with several leftover cans 'Dragon Skin 10 Medium' and 'Dragon Skin FX-Pro', overall five different batches. Pigmenting every batch randomly with Silc-Pig. Funny thing, I can not see blends in the foot's surface.
The demolded foot has a lot of flaws, from the usual air bubbles (without evacuating the silicone) to inaccuracy when positioning the bones inside the much to wobbly form (closed with plain silicone glue). So for more accuracy I'd need a GFK form. However, for this first test it's good enough.
The foot feels very different from a regular doll's foot. The top is firm, and through the heels you can feel the bone - just like a human foot. That's exactly what I wanted. The silicone layer on the heels is too thin, but I think it will suffice.
My hypothesis is that with these three ingredients - a properly shaped foot bone, a little larger foot, and a more firm silicone - standing should be a non-issue.
So the next step is to mount the silicone foot onto the skeleton and put weight on it…
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
The 3D print just completed.
Attached pictures show the printed part from two sides; first two pictures with support material; next two pictures show a 'real' foot skeleton for comparison; next two pictures show the 'real' bone and the printed part side by side; and the last two pictures show the printed part from top and bottom with support material removed.
Also I got rid of the phalanges distales and phalanges mediae as they are just too small and delicate. Not sure yet about the phalanges proximales. To fit into a DS-163 foot, the whole fifth metatarsal bone needs to go as well. The reduced foot skeleton with removed phalanges distales & mediae measures ~16 cm in length.
Sandro
Tools
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
mi6c, next time you get a chance have a good feel of Yutsuki's feet.
I gave Yuuko's feet a good feel up the other day and found that her foot plate's are so simple in comparison to the DS foot plates. Yuuko's foot plates are simple rounded off plates that don't even cover the length of the foot, they are pretty short. Most of the plate is towards the back of the feet.
Sometimes the most simple solution works better.
And yes, I also think standing in heels is generally a bad idea, no matter what its asking for trouble/damage.
If DS could work on getting their dolls to stand flat footed only that would be ideal, for standing in high heels the owner could always use a stand with the hanging kit accessory.
BTW here's a new pic of Yuuko (Silicone-Art) with most of her weight on one leg/foot - still not any signs of damage after over 3 years.
Tools
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
Well my 158 DS has arrived and I tried standing very briefly.
With there wonderful joint design I found she can stand OK, this was limited to the time it took to take one photo.
As my dolls are also used for photos I will report back on any further developments of standing ,I will take the precaution of at least putting shoes on her to hopefully lessen damage.
If damage does occur then I will see how I can mod the foot.
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
After a series of less than pleasant distractions in completely different matters, I finally managed to proceed with my little experiment.
I decided not to cast a DS foot as this would mean silicone on silicone, and to that degree I do neither trust my release agent nor Doll Sweets toes. These toes are really cute, and I don't want them to get stuck in a mold, so I simply 3D printed a foot. The alternative would be alginate, which would result in a so called 'lost form' (I could use the mold only for a couple of hours, until the alginate shrinks). Since mi6c might use the mold for his alternative foot plate design, I can not use a lost form.
Actually, I printed three variants in different sizes.
(*) Side note: The hardware used for 3d printing is an 'Ultimaker 3 Extended'. This €4.500 device is supposed to have a build space of 215 × 215 × 300 mm. However, you can only use a fraction of the specified build space to print an actual object unless you modify the printer and remove the clamps that hold the build plate, and hack the printer's configuration which prevents you to use the full build plate. Realistically, you can use ~160 × 160 mm of the build plate if using single extrusion. I printed support material in PVA, so I used the 2nd extruder, which aditionally reduced the usabled build space even more.
I will proceed with the 23 cm foot, so here are some more measurements:
The length is measured from back of the heel to tip of the toes. The max. width of this foot is ~8.5 cm (@mi6c: do you need more measurements?)
If you compare these dimensions to any existing female DS foot, you will notice that Doll Sweet's feet are way smaller. I believe that this is one of the problems preventing them to be able to stand on their own feet (not enough bearing surface to spread the weight), but so far this is not more than a hunch. However, using a realistically sized female foot like the 24,5 cm variant would make the doll look like a Hobbit's bride. We don't want that, either.
The next step will be to cast the foot in a two-part form. I will cast PLA (the foot) in silicone with support in gypsum ties (Gipsbinden). Since I'm not a trained moldmaker, no precise seamlines are to be expected. This is a rather 'short sleeved' (hemdsämelig) approach, I am aware of that (**).
(**) Side note: The software used for processing the 3D models is 'Cura'. Cura has a 'Mold' feature which would be amazingly helpful - if it would work reasonably. Actually, it generates an inverted object, but no support material to keep the object on the build plate; de facto, this limits you to print molds for useless stuff like a cube. Also, it can not generate a two-part-mold, so you could not get anything out of the mold without sawing the mold form open. On top of tht, Cura prints support material inside the mold object, so you can't get that out either, unless you are using PVA. The way Cura implements the 'Mold' feature is unbelievable stupid, but it could be immensely helpful.
Sandro
Tools
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
This is a really great project. DS feet could use a bit of an updated structure. Since the tip of the feet are completely floppy, putting on shoes to protect the silicone can be a massive operation. Not to mention that the plate did not like it that the doll was stored standing up while shipped.
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
interesting experiment ,as said elsewhere the 158 feet are size 33 EU or size 1 UK which measures out at 21 cm
As my doll gets older I will probably have to cut open a foot to see what can be done, at the moment she is to new to scar
Will keep an eye on this thread , makes interesting reading.
Always said doll folk can be very inventive
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
Hi,
a litte progress report… I finally managed to cast the 3D printed foot in Mold Star 15 (using what I had on the shelf). Learned to RTFM, yes, this stuff is not for brush-on applications. So had to add some Thi-Vex.
The white stuff around the form is the support shell, made of plaster bandages. The three cork parts on each part of the form are keys for alignment.
So I have a silicone form now and can start to pour some silicone into it… as soon as I have figured out how to fix the skeleton 'inlay' into the form.
That's the skeleton I'm planning to use. I think there will be one 'transverse strut' around ankle height, and one or two fixtures in the toes. No idea if this will work (or if the skeleton will poke through the silicone right away)…
Sandro
Tools
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
And work progresses well even though I cannot really see the advantage of using a copy of a real skeleton foot.
But then I'm not doing it myself so I'm sure you will develop it further, after all this is still the first experiment.
I admire your inventiveness.
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
Hi,
one step further… reduced to foot bones to an appropriate size and wrapped them into some gauze:
Then I casted the foot with several leftover cans 'Dragon Skin 10 Medium' and 'Dragon Skin FX-Pro', overall five different batches. Pigmenting every batch randomly with Silc-Pig. Funny thing, I can not see blends in the foot's surface.
The demolded foot has a lot of flaws, from the usual air bubbles (without evacuating the silicone) to inaccuracy when positioning the bones inside the much to wobbly form (closed with plain silicone glue). So for more accuracy I'd need a GFK form. However, for this first test it's good enough.
The foot feels very different from a regular doll's foot. The top is firm, and through the heels you can feel the bone - just like a human foot. That's exactly what I wanted. The silicone layer on the heels is too thin, but I think it will suffice.
My hypothesis is that with these three ingredients - a properly shaped foot bone, a little larger foot, and a more firm silicone - standing should be a non-issue.
So the next step is to mount the silicone foot onto the skeleton and put weight on it…
Sandro
Tools
Re: Standing capabilities and workarounds
well it looks very a interesting mod.
look forward to hearing how it performs